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arena?
#21
Did you ever play TBC where rated arenas were introduced?

Season 1) People could change their gear inside arena but hardly anyone knew what they were doing.

Season 2) People could change their gear inside arena and had access to BT (really good shadow resistance gear) and the general level of play was starting to increase along with awareness. People started identifying shadow priest / lock as a tier 1 comp and started using shadow resistance gear when they saw they were facing them in arena - Which made the priest / lock lose with absolutely no chance (their spells were doing 10% of their damage vs Shadow Ress Capped teams). There were huge amounts of QQ.

Season 3) Changing gear was no longer allowed to be changed inside the arena.

Season 4) Same

The issue with allowing people to change there gear once they are inside the arena and realise who they are playing against is you allow people to start using resistance gear against certain comps, warriors in frost resistance gear etc or in your example above switching your shadow reflector once you see you're against a Warlock, which turns the game from a class vs class and abilities vs abilities game but into a gear countering game.

It's only to preserve fairness for all players and classes that you shouldn't be able to change your items once you're in the arena say for example, you enter a 2 vs 2 as Rogue (SunQT) / Mage vs Rogue / Shadowpriest - You kill the rogue as the shadow priest kills your mage, you vanish and equip "of Shadow Resistance gear" turning a potentially interesting situation into a sure win, not through abilities or skill edge but purely through having collected gear and stored it ready for this exact time.

You're right though about this being another topic, it's just good to highlight certain reservations. I'm not sure that your statement that "caster teams are more likely to win arenas" is a correct statement. As nobody has really done a vanilla arena like we are suggesting in this topic, I'm not sure what the god tier comps are and neither is anyone else.

One thing for sure - Arenas are a great suggestion and it's implementation in any form would be a huge boost to retro-wow.

Kind Regards,
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#22
You are right !
I didnt though about shadow and frost resist gear.
And i just didnt expect players to farm a full shadow or frost gear just to have higher chance to win. But i guess at some point thats what will happen according to what history of TBC expansion is telling us.
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#23
If there is to be an arena, I suggest you cannot switch gear while you are inside the arena. That would give rogues for exemple an unfair advantage.. macro with vanish and switch trinket anyone ? or just run away, stealth, walk up to other class and sap so you changed trinket, but they cant..
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#24
(01-21-2017, 02:27 PM)Lav Wrote: the ONLY thing adding arena would do is put RW on anOTHER FUCKING LEVEL above ANY OTHER VANILLA PSERVER EVER.

So, in the interest of being respectful towards the staff as well as being realistic/constructive (because I know that you can't just wave a wand and make shit appear).  It takes dozens of hours to create even relatively simple content and that's just how it goes with any kind of software development project.  A couple years ago I taught myself to program and worked on developing a 2D space shooter for iPhone and spent COUNTLESS hours coding, researching, learning trig for fancy math calculations, how to write an AI (fuck that noise), ect... and because of that it is crucial that the dev hours the staff does decide to invest, go into something that will be valuable to the players and the server.  For a long time bugs and other platform fixes needed to be prioritized but it seems like things are in a pretty good place for those.

There are a number of ways in which arenas, or arena-like gameplay, are really perfect for Retro and I'll highlight a few of them here:

Only 4, 6 or 10 players are required - This isn't so much an issue for those that play during peak EU hours, but peak times for the USA are pretty uninteresting.  BGs usually consist of a couple of BIS, or close to it, geared people and a pile of starters or otherwise ill equipped combatants.  If there does happen to be a premade, its a slaughter and there are definitely not enough people for two premades.  Its much easier to find 4 well geared people at a moments notice compared to 20.  Even during peak hours though there are still lots of pug v pug games so, again, this would lower the entry requirements for competitive and organized PVP action.

Unique Selling Proposition (USP) - definition here Now, obviously Retro already has lots of unique components to it being instant 60 and 5 man and having a mall for gear, ect... and I feel like all of those unique components are what people love about Retro the most.  Blizzlike realms are simply copying the original 13 year old game.  Retro was founded with more creative freedom in mind which allows it to compete with the other larger server projects in ways that they simply can't.  No matter how big a server's community is or how perfect the scripting is, they will never have arenas because arenas weren't in retail vanilla.

Increased donations - In the link above to the USP definition they also talk about some other business principals such as "knowing what motivates your customers behaviors and buying decisions".  One of the reasons that people make the decision to donate is when there is an urgency to their need for items.  Retail Vanilla wasn't really designed around creating this urgent need in their players because... it took forever to get gear.  Also, there is very little individual sense of responsibility in vanilla PVP.  Having 10, 15 or 20 (with Retro AV) people on your team, you don't walk away from a loss with the sense that "if I had better gear we would have won".  That is the exact opposite.  Also, player psychology is conditioned in such a way that most people will tend to blame their gear long before they consider taking meaningful steps to improve their mechanical skill with their class.  Speaking of which... they will also blame their class and reroll, donating up to AQ40 gear at least, in the process.  Add in player vs player griefing and trash talking as tension increase and you'll also see a spike in rage donations.  Clash Royale (~500,000,000 USD/year) infamously refused to allow players the option to ignore their opponents in-game emotes for some time.  It was speculated that this was because of the analytics correlating people getting griefed via emotes and in-app purchases.  Of course that's not why you would implement arenas, but it will be an unavoidable side effect.

More community visibility - Retro's name has really been put on the map in the past several months.  Obviously, something like arenas will draw in that high end crowd of famous PVPers from around the community; and with them... come their friends, fans and content that they make promoting the server.

I wont really dive into the mechanics of how arenas might be accomplished because first we need a consensus that arenas are a feature that Retro would like to move forward with.

Arenas were implemented in the very first expansion Blizzard released for a reason: there was a large need that wasn't being met in any way by the original game.  That design flaw still exists in vanilla and only a "fun server" is capable of fixing that Wink

Prisom

RE: The nonsense QQing about resistance gear... sorry, but you're going to have to build a balanced team composition if you want to compete at the highest levels. Gimping yourself just to counter 1 of the 3 people on their team is not always the best strategic decision, especially when that person can do other things like swap schools and off-heal.

My apologies to all of the shadowplay hopefuls out there.

Prisom
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#25
amazing idea 2v2 is rly awesome maybe give everyone r10 gear or smh so it will be a little bit more balanced ))
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#26
arena would be epic. gives people a chance to get away from the same old crap in the guru arena we have now. you can even make the spot for it in the dire maul arena so its a little bigger. lol
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#27
Idd it would be nice to add Npc for that .
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#28
(01-23-2017, 02:44 AM)Prisom Wrote: Blizzlike realms are simply copying the original 13 year old game.  Retro was founded with more creative freedom in mind which allows it to compete with the other larger server projects in ways that they simply can't.  No matter how big a server's community is or how perfect the scripting is, they will never have arenas because arenas weren't in retail vanilla.
Arenas were implemented in the very first expansion Blizzard released for a reason: there was a large need that wasn't being met in any way by the original game. That design flaw still exists in vanilla and only a "fun server" is capable of fixing that



this ^^^
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#29
Sorry I have been reading along but didnt get time to post. It will take time to develop but it will be extremely worth it. No other vanilla server has it. I did do arena at the end of vanilla at the pre patch of TBC when they released it. It was tons of fun. Like I said you can set it so you can only solo que, and lock gear in place so you cant change it once you are in the zone. Make a bit of a edge maybe boost R13 weapon stats and you need Rating to get those. Make them have better stats than naxx ones and you need rating and pvp tokens to buy them.
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#30
do it
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