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Make Arathi Basin premade possible
#1
Hi everyone,
I think I speak for a lot of players when I say that AB isn't as competative as WSG. There are some periods when all you can do is just run with 15 others because the enemy team is doing the same, just run around and try to meet a small group of enemies to gank them. I don't know why is that, maybe they think they are farming tokens, but they are not actually. I get more tokens in WSG even as flag carrier than in AB lol. Because I try to play for the objective. And it really kills me when I wait for 10 minutes for anyone to come and try assault the base I'm defending. It kills me when I leave it to cap another because no one will even bother to stay for at least 1 minute until someone else ressurects. 
My suggestion is that you enable the group queue for Arathi Basin.
Sure, you will see some players who will always stick together, but that's the point. When you see someone is actually trying to win, when you get sick of 5 bis players farming your bases wherever they go, maybe you will make a group of your own, where you wpuld actually try to play for the win, not run away when two players aproach your base.
Please, don't say that low geared players will have a hard time and players that join the server. 
I mean come on, its a fun server theres nothing hard here. If you dont like BGs when you are low geared, just make 2 or 3 characters, get some profession, you will earn a lot of gold in no time. 
If you dont like doing that, then join WSG, if there are some guilds causing a lot of trouble in AB (and you are not the type of person who wants to beat them and try a million times if needed), just join WSG and casually run around kill ppl until others join too. 
I think this would make PvP on this server a lot better, I think it would be possible to have full AB and full WSG at the same time, where everyone would enjoy what they like.
But this is just disgusting sometimes. Sometimes there are like 7 ABs in a row where one team gets 5 cap ez and other team gets farmed easily, because all the lowbies are in that team, or just noobs who dont wanna die in BG. 
So, WSG is great already when it pops, but make AB great again please. Let's see who is the best.

Thanks
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#2
(12-23-2020, 12:38 AM)Grindelwald Wrote: Hi everyone,
I think I speak for a lot of players when I say that AB isn't as competative as WSG. There are some periods when all you can do is just run with 15 others because the enemy team is doing the same, just run around and try to meet a small group of enemies to gank them. I don't know why is that, maybe they think they are farming tokens, but they are not actually. I get more tokens in WSG even as flag carrier than in AB lol. Because I try to play for the objective. And it really kills me when I wait for 10 minutes for anyone to come and try assault the base I'm defending. It kills me when I leave it to cap another because no one will even bother to stay for at least 1 minute until someone else ressurects. 
My suggestion is that you enable the group queue for Arathi Basin.
Sure, you will see some players who will always stick together, but that's the point. When you see someone is actually trying to win, when you get sick of 5 bis players farming your bases wherever they go, maybe you will make a group of your own, where you wpuld actually try to play for the win, not run away when two players aproach your base.
Please, don't say that low geared players will have a hard time and players that join the server. 
I mean come on, its a fun server theres nothing hard here. If you dont like BGs when you are low geared, just make 2 or 3 characters, get some profession, you will earn a lot of gold in no time. 
If you dont like doing that, then join WSG, if there are some guilds causing a lot of trouble in AB (and you are not the type of person who wants to beat them and try a million times if needed), just join WSG and casually run around kill ppl until others join too. 
I think this would make PvP on this server a lot better, I think it would be possible to have full AB and full WSG at the same time, where everyone would enjoy what they like.
But this is just disgusting sometimes. Sometimes there are like 7 ABs in a row where one team gets 5 cap ez and other team gets farmed easily, because all the lowbies are in that team, or just noobs who dont wanna die in BG. 
So, WSG is great already when it pops, but make AB great again please. Let's see who is the best.

Thanks

I'm going to be blunt, but I don't mean to cause offense Grindelwald. I just feel very strongly opposed to this suggestion.

Allowing group queue doesn't accomplish anything other than allowing premades to exist, which is going to result in premades stomping non-premades. I'm not sure how anyone could be in favor of this unless they were looking to stomp undergeared noobs in a geared premade. Good pvpers care about competitive WSG so I can see why they would want group queue to play against other premades, but literally no one gives a shit about high end competitive AB so there isn't the "premade vs premade" competition argument to be made.

Furthermore, allowing WSG to be group queued is still highly divisive on this server, as many people will claim premades stomping pugs is why WSG is the least played battleground. At the very least you have to answer this question: If group queue for AB is as popular/great as you believe it is, then why do the majority of WSG games (where group queue is enabled) end due to lack of players? The obvious answer is that it isn't popular at all and, if anything, it's actively harmful to the community.


"Please, don't say that low geared players will have a hard time and players that join the server. 

I mean come on, its a fun server theres nothing hard here. If you dont like BGs when you are low geared, just make 2 or 3 characters, get some profession, you will earn a lot of gold in no time. "

So your solution to premades stomping undergeared players, which is an objectively miserably experience, is to tell all undergeared players to farm gold until they're geared? You do realize most new players (who make up the majority of undergeared players) will just quit before that happens right? The appeal of this server is having an instant 60 and being able to do content right away... not spend dozens of hours to farm gold to buy gear so you can stand a chance in a battleground. Your suggestion would cause even more new/undergeared players to quit which will lower Retro's server population even further.

"If you dont like doing that, then join WSG, if there are some guilds causing a lot of trouble in AB (and you are not the type of person who wants to beat them and try a million times if needed), just join WSG and casually run around kill ppl until others join too. "

You're essentially saying "If you don't like a battleground being ruined by premades, why don't you instead go join this other battleground that no one plays anymore (majority of games end early due to lack of players) because it was ruined by premades!". 

"I think this would make PvP on this server a lot better, I think it would be possible to have full AB and full WSG at the same time, where everyone would enjoy what they like."

How would allowing group queue in AB make WSG better? You've cited no evidence for this claim. Even if your suggestion did make AB better (it won't) then even fewer people would play WSG, which would make WSG games even worse since more than half the time I queue WSG the game ends due to too few people.

Also, full AB and full WSG at the same time? WSG and AB are almost never full outside of their respective weekend, and somehow your suggestion is going to result in BOTH AB and WSG games being full at the same time? I'm highly skeptical.

In summation, I believe your suggestion will provide no benefit to anyone other than the small group of people who want to form AB premades to stomp new/undergeared pugs, and if anything will cause major lasting harm to the server by causing some of those new/undergeared players to quit from the degenerative gameplay. Lastly, the fact that WSG is the least popular battleground (the majority of its games, outside of WSG weekend, end due to lack of players) is testament to the fact that allowing group queue for a battleground is not enjoyed by the overwhelming majority of this server's playerbase.
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#3
(12-23-2020, 12:38 AM)Grindelwald Wrote: .....
But this is just disgusting sometimes. Sometimes there are like 7 ABs in a row where one team gets 5 cap ez and other team gets farmed easily, because all the lowbies are in that team, or just noobs who dont wanna die in BG. 
....
I had to comment again because somehow I missed this.

By your own admission this is a problem that only happens sometimes. So to fix this problem, you want to allow group queueing which will guarantee that almost every game is a geared premade stomping noobs.

Do you not see that your suggestion will exacerbate the very problem you're complaining about? 

I'm at a loss for words.
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#4
Im just suggesting, you wrote a lot of text bro didnt read all, but I see you dont even like WSG premades.
You see, I group with 2 of my friends for WSG, if there are 4 of us we split into 2 groups of 2, if we win easily we split again and solo queue so the games are balanced.
Im not suggesting it so I can oneshot noobs, Im suggesting it so that I dont get the chance to oneshot them.
I'd rather lose a game and have fun and die trying to win it.
Just give it a shot, enable it for a week and we will see
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#5
"Im just suggesting, you wrote a lot of text bro didnt read all, but I see you dont even like WSG premades."

You wrote 2,195 characters and I wrote 3,537 characters. Yes, I wrote more, but it's not as if you also didn't write quite a bit yourself. I wrote logically and coherently, and I formatted what I wrote to be easy to read. Conversely, your first post is a jumbled mess of fragmented thoughts with almost no formatting. 

I don't say this to be rude, but to make the point that you expected people to read your long, poorly written post yet you were unwilling to do the same for others. It's hard to respect someone who behaves like that, especially when they provide no evidence for their claims, only respond to a made up strawman argument (I never said I don't like WSG premades, see below), and ignore legitimate criticism.

To respond to your WSG strawman: WSG premade vs premade is great, but that is not what has been happening on this server. It devolved into premades stomping pugs, which made all the pugs stop playing. Now WSG is dead, despite being the most loved battleground. I fucking love WSG and I wish they made it so you could only group queue if it was against another premade. Only a fool would read what I wrote and think "This person doesn't like WSG premades" when my only criticism about premades was the 'premade vs pug' stomping.
 
"You see, I group with 2 of my friends for WSG, if there are 4 of us we split into 2 groups of 2, if we win easily we split again and solo queue so the games are balanced."
So you don't engage in degenerate premade vs pug stomping, but there are/were enough people on this server who do/did exactly that and it ruined WSG. Thank you for proving that even if some people pinky swear not to engage in premade vs pug stomping in AB that there will still be enough people who do engage in that behavior that it ruins the battleground.

Just give it a shot, enable it for a week and we will see"
The first week something like this, or any new feature, is enabled there will be an influx of players trying it out. That doesn't mean people like it or that it's good for the health of the server. What matters is the long term effects this change will have (such as new/undergeared players quitting and the BG dying) and those will likely take at least a month or two to be evident. 

We already have data for what will happen to AB months after a change like this occurs: It's called WSG and it's dead as fuck. Why would it be any different for AB? Please provide any reason other than "lol bro u wrote too much so im not gonna read it, i'm just sayin me and my friends would love it bro"

To be clear I'm not replying to you, since you've made it clear you won't even attempt a good faith argument and will just ignore any counterpoints. I am replying to make the case, to any rational minded people reading this thread, that this suggestion would be terrible for the health of the pvp scene on Retro-Wow.
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#6
Thumbs Down 
Quite the wall of text, I didn't read any of it.

But I am opposed to premades and would rather that you disabled it for WSG.

It is my opinion that the server population isn't big enough to handle premades in a good way.
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#7
WSG isnt dead because you can join in a group, its dead because noobs cant bother to chase the flag carriers. See, AB ends after some time no matter what you do, so you can be a noob and do nothing for your team and you will still get your marks. There are no good premades on this server, everyone can be beaten. I'll just quote Younglord, we were complaining about AB noobs joining WSG and ruining our fun, and he said: "Well it's hard for them, in WSG flags move around"
Also, I didnt suggest this so I could argue with players if staff should accept my suggestion or not, you are way too hard for me, are u a lawyer irl? You might like arguments but I dont. Checking how many characters I wrote and comparing thats just insane to me, I dont even know how to check that. See, thats how much I care
I JUST THINK ITS A TIME FOR SOME CHNAGES MAN, for a year now it goes like this, AB WEEKEND INC JOIN AB (EVERYONE AB) AV WEEKEND INC JOIN AV ONLYPLAYAV(FUCK YE PLZ NO TURTLE GOLD FARMING WE LIKE TO PVE IN BG) WSG WEEKEND INC JOIN WSG(WSG STARTED, THIS GAME WILL END DUE TO LACK OF PLAYERS, MON, TUE, WED, JOIN WSG WSG WEEKEND INC NAH I PLAY AB, AB AB OH WSG WEEKEND IS HERE, JOIN AB AB IS AFTER WSG)
Ok thats all Ive got to say bro, Im not tryin to offend you either you obviously care about these things more than me, you are not lazy to do some researches about stuff, but I'd just like if pvp on this server got better. No hard feelings. Love ya
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#8
(12-23-2020, 02:24 PM)mentos987 Wrote: Quite the wall of text, I didn't read any of it.

But I am opposed to premades and would rather that you disabled it for WSG.

It is my opinion that the server population isn't big enough to handle premades in a good way.
Oh come on Durzi you like WSG too why would you say such a thing about premades, there would be no good games in WSG either if you couldnt group join. 
Whenever I solo q I end up being in front of etun 500 hp and Lightingboy troll shaman standing next to me casting chain lighting on 10k hp warrior whos about to gank my ass. The guy cant even heal himself, not to mention his team mate
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#9
(12-23-2020, 05:07 PM)Grindelwald Wrote:
(12-23-2020, 02:24 PM)mentos987 Wrote: ...
Oh come on Durzi you like WSG too why would you say such a thing about premades, there would be no good games in WSG either if you couldnt group join. 
Whenever I solo q I end up being in front of etun 500 hp and Lightingboy troll shaman standing next to me casting chain lighting on 10k hp warrior whos about to gank my ass. The guy cant even heal himself, not to mention his team mate

I enjoy WSG the most when both sides are relatively equal. The odds of that happening in a random WSG is about 30%, and those odds go down if I join a premade.

However, the most enjoyable games are WSG premade vs premade.

Since the server population is to small for "prem v prem" I'd rather not have any premade at all.
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#10
The way gear is being earned on this server, is influencing everything. People only care for gold and tokens, nothing else.
They queue AB for token farm, rarely somebody cares for win, zerg fest nobody defends anything.
They queue AV for gold
They dont queue WSG unless is the weekend
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