NO1CARES --- You may skip this part if you're not interested in my personal story
(Please take note : This is not a bragging post, I come here sharing my thoughts based on my experience in retail vanilla and I've completed all raids before naxx, including cthun, and 8/14 naxx in a short time frame since the guild was created 1 month after serv transfer was allowed and aq40 was already open on many serv, but not the one we migrated to... Invictus / Ysera / US.. Yes we chose a pve serv in order to allow more french canadian to join the guild, but I come from stonemaul, a pvp serv, which is how I came to love world pvp .) Cthun kill 0:55 I'm "Dead gnome", I was never really good at listening to raid leaders... 1:02 I'm the gnome war up front. I wished I could find the whole version of this kill as it was our first kill and a good anecdote comes with it, but this is for another time.
As it is, I'm not quite sure if it's an april's fools or not, but if it is I've come to think that if retro's pve is to be prosperous end game wise, there must be a change, alt loot or not.
Right now, any class can do any raid. FACT.
Any group comp cannot kill any boss. Easily anyway.
Using some logic we will determine that all group comps are not viable for raiding. (Yes, to the elitists out there, any group comp can do anything, given you've got time. Time to gather the mats, or gold, for consummes, time to kill mobs and bosses slower, time to wipe on easy bosses because of atypical group comp, time to be a try hard.
I came to retro because when I saw the ad on the website with all the other private servers, retro stood out. Of all the servers retro was the only vanilla "fun" server. This meant a lot to me as I wanted to fall into the nostalgia that I had of the times I played vanilla, 10 years ago, but didn't want to have to give up my social life and other activities in order to raid.
Among the things that dragged me here were "Instant 60" omg this is the best thing, as I hate leveling.
As well as "5m Raids". At first I thought it would be some easy tank and spank billshit and that I would end up pvping only, but as I discovered the mechanics I was overjoyed that I could finally go through all the raids that I loved to do when I was a teenager and that they were, even though not perfect, as close as it gets to a 40m raid tuned down to a 5m raid.
But I was lucky, because my favorties classes were always warrior, rogue and paladin. So I never had a hard time finding raids. At first people would tell me "your gear is too low" and tell me they wanted better geared players. Slowly I showed people I was worth more then my gear and could carry my own weight even though I was inexperienced. I could listen and learn strategies quickly as it was mostly tuned down raids that I had done (a long time ago, but strategies came back to mind quickly as I progressed through raids). BUT I was a warrior (I never speced prot before naxx, not kidding, but I raided retail the entire time as dps war and off tanking when necessary so I knew the class pretty well already), or a holy paladin (I never liked ret as I always thought it was a cheap version of arms war and I was accustomed to war) and a rogue, one of the best dps class in vanilla. So I never had a hard time finding raids for my 3 mains.
As I started being geared, I also started to want to try new classes and learn more about their mechanics. But I didn't necessarily want to go through the pain of gearing all of them through raids or endless gold farming so I started alt looting. I was never a big fan of alt looting items that are not BiS, but I always hated to see a BiS go to waste because no one needed it in our small 5m group in a raid meant for 40 people, where there would always be someone who could have a use for it.
-BTW You can learn to play any class if you use google, so being forced to raid with a specific class isn't the best way to improve because you may be forced to play the class to get gear, but this doesn't mean you will learn and improve when people try and give you tips on your class. I've tryed to tell people about class mechanics and how to improve their dps and overall skills and I've been told to mind my own business, because this is just a game and they can do as they want. Of course they can, but my point is that even though someone must use the char he wants to gear to raid, it doesn't mean that he wants to improve, or will.-
Now that I'm done with my little story...
Assuming that alt loot was disabled to make it "blizzlike", then naxx (as it is the only raid I see that cannot be completed by swaping group comp in order to complete it) must be reworked in order to make all classes, specs and group comps viable.
Anyone who's been playing wow in retail knows that blizzard intended for raids to be epic and never wanted them to be centered around a specific group comp because it was 40m and at that point you would do with what you had.
So what I'm suggesting, following Smashbra's thread (Credits given - I'm such an ahole for encouraging drama, I know) is to leave pre naxx raids as they are, because I think that any comp can clear those without too much of a problem, BUT make Naxxramas 10m, as I see no way to make 5m work for all comps. AND this would make naxx some sort of "end game" raid that not everyone can do, but that any class can fit in. This would mean naxx would be retro's version of what naxx used to be on retail, an elitist raid that unfit people may venture into, but won't be able to complete unless improving their skills and working hard to get themselves ready for it. -Good thing they can buy gear with gold-
*Warning* Assumptions made of my own reasoning, which might be wrong *warning*
I can only assume this is what the devs wanted, to expand the variety of classes in pve and to force people to learn and play their class in order to obtain gear. I've come to understand those agreeing with the alt loot removal, which opinions can be found in my Dear Retro thread, in some way, but I believe that for retro pve's best interest, and according to the opinions of people in favor of alt loot removal, Naxx should be turned into a 10m raid so that all classes, regardless of their specs, may join the fight to banish the scourge from our holy lands, without fearing to be unfit for the task!
I would leave any other raids alone and would classify them as "retro dungeons", because back in the days, we had to do 5m dungeons (10m UBRS) in order to prepare ourselves for the challenges that were 40m raids and imho, it was fun! I would love for retro to make the old dungeons worth doing, but I will keep this for a new suggestion when I've got time to gather ideas to make it appealing to the community.
SO TLDR
Make naxx 10m raids in order to allow more classes and specs to be viable. This in turn would drive players toward learning new strategies and their class' mechanics in order to make their group comp work efficiently.
Thank you for your time.
(Please take note : This is not a bragging post, I come here sharing my thoughts based on my experience in retail vanilla and I've completed all raids before naxx, including cthun, and 8/14 naxx in a short time frame since the guild was created 1 month after serv transfer was allowed and aq40 was already open on many serv, but not the one we migrated to... Invictus / Ysera / US.. Yes we chose a pve serv in order to allow more french canadian to join the guild, but I come from stonemaul, a pvp serv, which is how I came to love world pvp .) Cthun kill 0:55 I'm "Dead gnome", I was never really good at listening to raid leaders... 1:02 I'm the gnome war up front. I wished I could find the whole version of this kill as it was our first kill and a good anecdote comes with it, but this is for another time.
As it is, I'm not quite sure if it's an april's fools or not, but if it is I've come to think that if retro's pve is to be prosperous end game wise, there must be a change, alt loot or not.
Right now, any class can do any raid. FACT.
Any group comp cannot kill any boss. Easily anyway.
Using some logic we will determine that all group comps are not viable for raiding. (Yes, to the elitists out there, any group comp can do anything, given you've got time. Time to gather the mats, or gold, for consummes, time to kill mobs and bosses slower, time to wipe on easy bosses because of atypical group comp, time to be a try hard.
I came to retro because when I saw the ad on the website with all the other private servers, retro stood out. Of all the servers retro was the only vanilla "fun" server. This meant a lot to me as I wanted to fall into the nostalgia that I had of the times I played vanilla, 10 years ago, but didn't want to have to give up my social life and other activities in order to raid.
Among the things that dragged me here were "Instant 60" omg this is the best thing, as I hate leveling.
As well as "5m Raids". At first I thought it would be some easy tank and spank billshit and that I would end up pvping only, but as I discovered the mechanics I was overjoyed that I could finally go through all the raids that I loved to do when I was a teenager and that they were, even though not perfect, as close as it gets to a 40m raid tuned down to a 5m raid.
But I was lucky, because my favorties classes were always warrior, rogue and paladin. So I never had a hard time finding raids. At first people would tell me "your gear is too low" and tell me they wanted better geared players. Slowly I showed people I was worth more then my gear and could carry my own weight even though I was inexperienced. I could listen and learn strategies quickly as it was mostly tuned down raids that I had done (a long time ago, but strategies came back to mind quickly as I progressed through raids). BUT I was a warrior (I never speced prot before naxx, not kidding, but I raided retail the entire time as dps war and off tanking when necessary so I knew the class pretty well already), or a holy paladin (I never liked ret as I always thought it was a cheap version of arms war and I was accustomed to war) and a rogue, one of the best dps class in vanilla. So I never had a hard time finding raids for my 3 mains.
As I started being geared, I also started to want to try new classes and learn more about their mechanics. But I didn't necessarily want to go through the pain of gearing all of them through raids or endless gold farming so I started alt looting. I was never a big fan of alt looting items that are not BiS, but I always hated to see a BiS go to waste because no one needed it in our small 5m group in a raid meant for 40 people, where there would always be someone who could have a use for it.
-BTW You can learn to play any class if you use google, so being forced to raid with a specific class isn't the best way to improve because you may be forced to play the class to get gear, but this doesn't mean you will learn and improve when people try and give you tips on your class. I've tryed to tell people about class mechanics and how to improve their dps and overall skills and I've been told to mind my own business, because this is just a game and they can do as they want. Of course they can, but my point is that even though someone must use the char he wants to gear to raid, it doesn't mean that he wants to improve, or will.-
Now that I'm done with my little story...
Assuming that alt loot was disabled to make it "blizzlike", then naxx (as it is the only raid I see that cannot be completed by swaping group comp in order to complete it) must be reworked in order to make all classes, specs and group comps viable.
Anyone who's been playing wow in retail knows that blizzard intended for raids to be epic and never wanted them to be centered around a specific group comp because it was 40m and at that point you would do with what you had.
So what I'm suggesting, following Smashbra's thread (Credits given - I'm such an ahole for encouraging drama, I know) is to leave pre naxx raids as they are, because I think that any comp can clear those without too much of a problem, BUT make Naxxramas 10m, as I see no way to make 5m work for all comps. AND this would make naxx some sort of "end game" raid that not everyone can do, but that any class can fit in. This would mean naxx would be retro's version of what naxx used to be on retail, an elitist raid that unfit people may venture into, but won't be able to complete unless improving their skills and working hard to get themselves ready for it. -Good thing they can buy gear with gold-
*Warning* Assumptions made of my own reasoning, which might be wrong *warning*
I can only assume this is what the devs wanted, to expand the variety of classes in pve and to force people to learn and play their class in order to obtain gear. I've come to understand those agreeing with the alt loot removal, which opinions can be found in my Dear Retro thread, in some way, but I believe that for retro pve's best interest, and according to the opinions of people in favor of alt loot removal, Naxx should be turned into a 10m raid so that all classes, regardless of their specs, may join the fight to banish the scourge from our holy lands, without fearing to be unfit for the task!
I would leave any other raids alone and would classify them as "retro dungeons", because back in the days, we had to do 5m dungeons (10m UBRS) in order to prepare ourselves for the challenges that were 40m raids and imho, it was fun! I would love for retro to make the old dungeons worth doing, but I will keep this for a new suggestion when I've got time to gather ideas to make it appealing to the community.
SO TLDR
Make naxx 10m raids in order to allow more classes and specs to be viable. This in turn would drive players toward learning new strategies and their class' mechanics in order to make their group comp work efficiently.
Thank you for your time.